This episode delves into Cursor's new Cloud Agents, which provide AI agents with full virtual machine access, enabling them to test code, generate demo videos, and allow remote user control. The discussion highlights a significant shift from traditional hand-coding to collaborative, agent-driven development, emphasizing the need for higher-level abstraction and parallel processing. It also covers challenges in scaling AI-generated code, the importance of agent self-awareness, and predictions for the future of agentic workflows across industries.
This is another experiment that we ran last year and didn't decide to ship at that time, but may come back to you. LM judge, but one that was also agentic and could write code. So it wasn't just picking, but also taking the learnings from two models or end models that it was looking at and writing a new diff.
And what we found was that there were strengths to using models from different model providers as the base level of this process.
like, bottom model tier. We think that over the coming months, the big unlock is not going to be one person with a model getting more done, like the water flowing faster. It will be making the pipe much wider.
And so paralyzing more, whether that's swarms of agents or parallel agents, both of those are things that contribute to getting much more done in the same amount of time.
This week, one of the biggest launches that Cursor's ever done is Cloud Agents. I think you you had Cloud Agents before, but this was like, you give Cursor a computer. Right?
Yeah. So is this basically they bought AutoTAB and then they repackaged it? Is this what's going on?
Or That's a big part of it. Yeah.
but they were sort of site reading code. Yeah. And those computers were not they were like blank VMs typically that were not set up for the DevX for whatever repo the agent's working on.
One of the things that we talk about is if you put yourself in the model shoes, and you were seeing tokens stream by, and all you could do was site recode and spit out tokens and hope that you had done the right thing No chance. I'd be so bad. Like, you've obviously, you need to run the code.
And so that, I think, also is probably not that contrarian of a take, but no one has done that yet. And so giving the model the tools to onboard itself and then use full computer use end to end pixels in, coordinates out, and have the cloud computer with different apps in it is the big unlock that we've seen internally in terms of use usage of this going from, oh, we use it for little copy changes, to no, we're really, like, driving new features with this kind of new type of agentic workflow. Alright.
Let's see it. Cool. So this is what it looks like in kershore.
com/agents. So this is one I kicked off a while ago. So on the left hand side is the chat, very classic sort of agentic thing.
The big new thing here is that the agent will test its changes. So you can see here it worked for half an hour. That is because it not only took time to write the tokens of code, it also took time to test them end to end.
So it started dev servers, iterate when needed. And so that's one part of it is, like, model works for longer and doesn't come back with a, I tried some things PR, but a, I tested at PR that's ready for your review. One of the other intuition pumps we use there is if a human gave you PR, asked you to review it, you hadn't they hadn't tested it, you'd also be annoyed because you'd be like, only ask me for a review once it's actually ready.
So that's what we've done with. Simple question I wanted to gather upfront. Some PRs are way smaller, like just copy change.
Does it always do the video or just sometimes? Sometimes. Okay.
So what's the judgment? The model does it. So we we do some default prompting with sort of what types of changes to test.
There's a slash command that people can do called slash no test, where if you do that, the model will not test. But the default is test? The default is to be calibrated, so we tell it don't test very simple copy changes, but test, like, more complex things.
And then users can also write their agents dot m d and specify, like, this type of if you're editing this sub part of my mono repo, never tested because that won't work or whatever. Okay. So pillar one is the model actually testing.
Pillar two is the model coming back with a video of what it did. We have found that in this new world where agents can end to end write much more code, reviewing the code is one of these new bottlenecks that crop up. And so reviewing a video is not a substitute for reviewing code, but it is an entry point that is much, much easier to start with than glancing at some giant diff.
And so, typically, you kick one off, you it's done, you come back, and the first thing that you would do is watch this video. So this is a video of it. In this case, I wanted a tool tip over this button, and so it went and showed me what that looks like in in this video that I think here it actually used a gallery.
So sometimes it will build storybook type galleries where you can see, like, that component in action. And so that's pillar two, is like these demo videos of what it built. And then pillar number three is I have full remote control access to this VM.
So I can go heat in here, I can hover things, I can type, I have full control, and same thing for the terminal. I have full access, and so that is also really useful because sometimes the video is like all you need to see, and oftentimes, by the way, the video's not perfect. The video will show you, is this worth either merging immediately or, oftentimes, is this worth iterating with to get it to that final stage where I am ready to merge in, so I can go through some other examples where the first video wasn't perfect, but it gave me confidence that we were on the right track, and two or three follow ups later, it was good to go.
And then I also have full access here, where some things you just wanna play around with. You wanna get a feel for what is this, and there's no substitute to a live preview, and the VNC kind of VM remote access gives you that. Amazing.
What sorry. What is VNC?
Just the remote desktop. Remote desktop. Yeah.
Sam, any other details that you always wanna call out? Yeah. For me, the videos have been super helpful.
I would say especially in cases where a common problem for me with agents and cloud agents beforehand was almost like under specification specification in my requests where our plan mode and going really back and forth and getting detailed implementation spec is a way to reduce the risk of under specification. But then similar to how human communication breaks down over time, I feel like you have this risk where it's, okay, when I pull down go to the trouble of pulling down and, like, running this branch locally, I'm gonna see that, like, I said this should be a toggle and you have a checkbox and, like, why didn't you get that detailed? And having the video upfront just has that makes that alignment, like you're talking about a shared artifact with the agent very clear, which has been just super helpful for me.
I can quickly run through some other Yes. Examples. So this is a very front end heavy one.
Yes.
I was gonna say, is this only for front end? Exactly. One question you might have is this only for front end?
So this is another example where the thing I wanted it to implement was a better error message for saving secrets. So the Cloud agents support adding secrets. That's part of what it needs to access certain systems.
Part of onboarding that is giving access. On Cloud agents. Yes.
So this is a fun thing is It can get super meta. We can get super meta. It can start its own Cloud agents.
It can talk to its own Cloud agents. Sometimes it's hard to wrap your mind around that. We have disabled its Cloud Agents starting more Cloud Agents.
So we currently disallow that. Someday you might. Someday we might.
Someday we might. So this actually was mostly a back end change in terms of the error handling here, where if the secret is far too large, it would this is actually really cool. The DevTools.
That's the DevTools. So if the secret is far too large, we don't allow secrets above a certain size. We have a size limit on them.
And the error message there was really bad. It was just some generic failed to save message. So I was like, hey, we want an error message.
So first cool thing it did here, zero prompting on how to test this. Instead of typing out the, like, a character 5,000 times to hit the limit, it opens dev tools, writes JS or to paste into the input 5,000 characters of the letter a, and then hit save, closes the DevTools, hit save, and gets this new gets the new error message. So that looks like the video actually cut off.
But here you can see the here you can see the screenshot of the of the error message. So that is like front end, back end, end to end feature Yeah. To to get And You you just need a full VM, full computer, run everything.
Okay. Yeah. Yeah.
So we've had versions of this. This is one of the AutoTab lessons where we started that in 2022 no. In 2023.
And at the time, it was like browser use, DOM, like, all these different things. And I think we ended up very sort of AGI pilled in the sense that just give the model pixels, give it a box. A brain in a box is what you want, and you want to remove limitations around context and capabilities such that the bottleneck should be the intelligence.
And given how smart models are today, that's a very far out bottleneck. And so giving it its full VM and having it be onboarded with DevX setup like a human would has just been, for us internally, a really big step change in capability.
Yeah. I I would say, let's call it a year ago, the models weren't even good enough to do any of this stuff. So Even six months ago.
Yeah. So, yeah, what people have told me is, like, roundabout Sonar four five is when this started being good enough to just automate fully by pixel. Yeah.
I I think it's always a question of when is good enough. I think we found in particular with Opus four five, four six, and Codex five three, that those were additional step changes in the autonomy grade capabilities of the model to just go off and figure out the details and come back when it's done. I wanna appreciate a couple details.
One, TANSTAK router. I see it. Yeah.
I'm a big fan. Do you know I I have to name the TANSTAK? No.
This is just a random lore. Somebody, Suit Tanner. Mine.
And then the other thing, if you switch back to the video Yeah. I wanna shout out this thing. Probably Sam did it.
I don't know. The chapters? What is this called?
Yeah. This is called chapters. Yeah.
It's like a Vimeo thing. I I don't know, but it's so nice. The design details.
Like, the and obviously, a company called Cursor has to have a beautiful cursor. And it is the cursor cursor. You see it.
It's branded. Yeah. Yeah.
Okay. Cool. And then I was like, I complained to Evan.
I was like, okay. But you guys have branded everything but the wallpaper. And he was like, no.
That's a cursor wallpaper. I was like, what?
Rio picked the wallpaper. I think, yeah, the video that was probably Alexi and, yeah, a few others on the team with the chapters on the video. Matthew, Frederica.
There's been a lot of teamwork on this. It's been a huge effort. I I just like like design details.
Yes. And and and then when you download it, it adds like a little cursor kinda TikTok clip. Yes.
Yes. So to make it really obvious, it's from Cursor. We did the TikTok branding at the end.
This was actually in our launch video.
Alexei demoed the Cloud Agent that built that feature, which was funny because that was an instance where one of the things that's been a consequence of having these videos is we use best of n where you run head to head different models on the same prompt. We use that a lot more because one of the complications with doing that before was you'd run four models and they would come back with some giant diff, like 700 lines of code times four. So what are you gonna do?
You're gonna review all that? That's horrible. But if you come back with four twenty second videos, yeah, I'll watch four twenty second videos.
And then even if none of them is perfect, you can figure out, like, which one of those do you wanna iterate with to get it over the line. Yep. And so that's really been really fun.
Here's another example that we found really cool, which is we've actually turned since into a slash command as well, slash repro, where for bugs in particular, the model having full access to the to its own VM, it can first reproduce the bug, Make a video of the bug reproducing. Fix the bug. Make a video of the bug being fixed, like, doing the same pattern workflow with, obviously, the bug not reproducing.
And that has been the single category that has gone from, like, these types of bugs really hard to reproduce and takes you tons of time locally. Even if you tried a Cloud Agent on it, are you confident it actually fixed it to when this happens, you'll merge it in ninety seconds or something like that. So this is an example where let me see if this is the broken one or the okay, this is the fixed one.
Okay, so we had a bug on cursor.com/agents, where if you would attach images, remove them, and then still submit your prompt, they would actually still get attached to the prompt. Okay?
And so here you can see, Kershur is using its full desktop. By the way, this is one of the cases where if you just do browser use type stuff, you will have a bad time, because now it needs to upload files. Like, it just uses its native file viewer to do that.
And so you can see here, it's uploading files. It's going to submit a prompt, and then it will go and open up. So this is the meta.
This is CursorAgent prompting CursorAgent inside its own environment. And so you can see here, bug, there's five images attached, whereas when it submitted, it only had one image. I see.
Yeah. But you gotta enable that if you wanna use Cursor Agent inside Cursor Agent. Yeah.
And so here, this is then the after video where it went, it does the same thing. It attaches images, removes some of them, hit send, and you can see here, once this agent is up, only one of the images is left in the attachments. Yeah.
Beautiful. Okay. So easy merge.
Yeah. When does it choose to do this? Because this is an extra step.
Yes. I think I've not done a great job yet of calibrating the model on when to reproduce these things. Sometimes it will do it of its own accord.
Yeah. We've been conservative where we try to have it only do it when it's sure because it does add some amount of time to how long it takes it to work on it.
command, where you can just do fix this bug slash repro, and then it will know that it should first make you a video of it actually finding and making sure it can reproduce the bug. Yeah. Yeah.
One sort of ML topic this ties into is reward hacking, where while you write test that you update, you only pass. So first write test, it shows me it fails, then make your test pass, which is a classic, like, red green Yep. Like a TDD.
TDD thing. No. Very cool.
Was that the last demo? Or is there a certain amount of Yeah. Anything I missed on the demos or points that anything covers it well.
Yeah. Cool. Before we stop the screen share, can you give me, like, a just a tour of the slash commands?
Because I they're so goddamn ready. What what are the good ones? Yeah.
We wanna increase discoverability around this too. I think that'll be, like, a future thing we work on. Yeah.
But there's definitely a lot of good stuff now. We have a lot of internal ones that I think will not be that interesting.
Here's an internal one that I've made. I don't know if anyone else at Cursor uses this one. Fix BB?
I've never heard of it. Yeah. Fix Bug Bot.
So this is a thing that we want to integrate more tightly. So you made this for yourself? I made this for myself.
It's actually available to everyone in the team, but Yeah. No one knows about it. But, yeah, there will be Bug Bot comments.
And so Bug Bot has a lot of cool things. We actually just launched Bug Bot Auto Fix, where you can click a button and or change a setting, and it will automatically fix its own things. And that works great in a bunch of cases.
There are some cases where having the context of the original agent that created the PR is really helpful for fixing the bugs because it might be like, oh, the bug here is that this is a regression, and actually, you meant to do something more like that, and so having the original prompt and all of the context of the agent that worked on it. And so here, I could just do fix or I used to be able to do fix PB and it would do that.
slash repro is in here. We mentioned that one. One of my favorites is Cloud Agent Diagnosis.
This is one that makes heavy use of the Datadog MCP. Okay. And I think Nick and David on our team wrote.
And basically, if there is a problem with a Cloud Agent, we'll spin up a bunch of sub instance. Yeah. We'll take the ID as an argument and spin up a bunch of sub agents using the Datadog MCP to explore the logs and find, like, all of the problems that could have happened with that.
It takes the debugging time, like, from potentially, you can do quick stuff quickly with the Datadog UI, but it takes it down to, again, like a single agent call as opposed to trawling through logs yourself. You should also talk about the stuff we've done with transcripts. Yes.
Also. So, basically, we've also done some things internally. There'll be some versions of this as we ship publicly soon where you can spin up an agent and give it access to another agent's transcript to either basically debug something that happened.
So act as an external debugger I see. Or continue the conversation, almost like forking it. A transcript includes all the chain of thought for the eleven minutes here, forty five minutes there.
Yeah. Exactly. So basically acting as a, like, secondary agent that debugs the first.
So we've started to push And they're all the same code.
but the the same Yeah.
same Cloud Agent infrastructure and then the same harness. And then, like, when we do things, like, include there's some extra infrastructure that goes into piping in, like, an external transcript if we include it as an attachment. But for things like the Cloud Agent diagnosis, that's mostly just using the Datadog MCP.
Because we also launched MCPs along with along with this Cloud Agent launch launch support for Cloud Agent MCPs. Oh, that was drowned out. I know.
We will we will be doing a bigger marketing moment for it next week.
and you can now use MCP They'll people listen to it as well. Yeah. They'll they'll be ahead of the year.
They'll be ahead. And I would I I actually don't know if the Datadog MCP is, like, publicly available yet. I realized this.
Not sure. Beta testing it. But it's been one of my favorites to use.
So I think that one's interesting for Datadog because Datadog wants to own that side, right, with Bits. I don't know if you've tried Bits. I haven't tried Bits.
Yeah. That's their Cloud Agent product? Yeah.
They want to be like, we own your logs and give us our some part of the self healing software that everyone wants. Yeah. But, obviously, Cursor has a strong opinion on coding agents and that you're, like, taking away from the which, like, obviously, you're going to do, and not every company is like Cursor.
But it's interesting if you're a data dog, like, what do you do here? Do you expose your logs to FCP and let other people do it, or do you try to own that as because it's extra business for you? Yeah.
It's, like, an interesting one. Good question.
All I know is that I love the Datadog MCP.
And, yeah, it's gonna be no no surprise that people, like, will will demand it. Right? Yeah.
It's just like any system of record company, this it's it's like, how much do you give away? Cool. I think that's that for the sort of Cloud Agents tour.
Cool. And we just talked about like, Cloud Agents have been when did Chris and I lost Cloud Agents? Do you know?
June. June? So it's been a slowly evolving thing.
You did, a bunch of like, Michael did a post for himself where he, like, showed this chart of, like, agents overtaking TAP. And I'm like, wow. This is, like, the biggest transition in COVID.
Yeah. Like, in in, like, the last Yeah. I think that kind of got drowned out.
Yeah. I think it's a very interesting thing. I think it's been Okay.
Highlighted by our friend, Andre Kafathi, today. Okay. Talk more about it.
What does it mean? Is it just got given, like, the cursor tab key? Yes.
Yes. That's like Cool. I know.
But it's gonna be, like, put in a museum. It is. I have to say I haven't used Tab in a little bit myself.
Yeah. I think that what it looks like to code with AI, code generally creates software, even if you wanna go higher level, is changing very rapidly. No.
Not a hot take. But I think from our vantage point at Cursor, I think one of the things that is probably underappreciated from the outside is that we are extremely self aware about that fact, and Cursor got its start in phase one, era one of, like, tab and auto complete, and that was really useful in its time. But a lot of people start looking at text files and editing code.
Like, we call it hand coding now when you, like, type out the actual letters. It's Oh, that's cute. Yeah.
Oh, that's cute. You're so boomer. So boomer.
And so that, I think, has been a slowly accelerating and now in the last few months, rapidly accelerating shift. And we think that's going to happen again with the next thing where the I think some of the pains around tab of it's great, but I actually just wanna give more to the agent and I don't want to do one tab at a time. I wanna just give it a task and it goes off and does a larger unit of work, and I can lean back a little bit more and operate at that higher level of abstraction.
and you're getting back videos and trying out previews rather than immediately looking at diffs every single time. Yeah. Another thing to add?
One other shift that I've noticed as our cloud agents have really taken off internally has been a shift from primarily individually driven development to almost this collaborative nature of development.
basically. It is what I'm like, maybe don't even build a custom UI. Like, maybe that's like a debugging thing, but actually it's Slack.
I feel like, yeah, there's still so much to left to explore there.
us, like, Slack is where a lot of development happens. Like, we will have these issue channels or just like this product discussion channels where people are always at cursoring, and that kicks off a Cloud Agent. And for us, at least, we have team follow ups enabled.
So if Jonas kicks off at cursor in a thread, I can follow-up with it and add more context. And so it turns into almost like a discussion service where people can, like, collaborate on UI. Oftentimes, I will kick off an investigation.
And then sometimes I even ask it to get blame and then tag people who should be brought in because it can tag people in Slack. And then the other people will can tag other people who are not involved in pharmacies. Can just do at Jonas of CyberSoc and Co.
Yeah. Figure out, like That's cool. Should you guys should make a big deal out of that.
I know. It's a lot to I feel like there's a lot more to do with our Fox surface area to show people externally. But, yeah, basically, like, it can bring other people in, and then other people can also contribute to that thread.
And you can end up with a PR, again, with the artifacts visible. And then people can be like, okay, cool. We can merge this.
So for us, it's like the IDE is almost like moving into Slack in some ways as well. I have the same experience with, but it's not developers. It's me, designer, salespeople.
Yeah. So me on, like, technical marketing vision, designer on design, and then salespeople on here's the legal thirds of what we agreed on. And then they all just collaborate and correct the agents.
the work that is left that the humans are discussing in these threads is the nugget of what is actually interesting and relevant. It's not the boring details of where does this if statement go. It's do we wanna ship this?
Is this the right UX? Is this the right form factor? How do we make this more obvious to the user?
that are so easy to collaborate with and leave the implementation to the Cloud Agent. Totally. And no more discussion of am I gonna do this?
Are you gonna do this? Chris is doing it. You just have to decide you like it.
Sometimes, I don't know if there's a this pop you guys probably figured this out already, but sometimes you need, a mute button. So, like, Chris or like, we're gonna take this offline, but still online. But, like, we need to talk among the humans first before you, like, could stop responding to everything.
Yeah.
where currently cursor won't chime in unless you explicitly at mention it. Yeah. So it's not always listening.
Yeah. I can see all the intermediate messages. Have you done the recursive can cursor at another cursor or spawn another cursor?
Oh. We've done some versions of this. Because we can add humans.
Yes. One of the other things we've been working on that's like an implication of generating the code is so easy is getting it to production is still harder than it should be. And broadly, you solve one bottleneck and three new ones pop up.
Yeah. And so one of the new bottlenecks is getting it to production. And we have a, like, joke internally where you'll be talking about some feature and someone says, I have a PR for that, which is it's so easy to get to I have a PR for that, but it's hard still relatively to get from I have a PR for that to I'm confident and ready to merge this.
And so I think that over the coming weeks and months, that's the thing that we think a lot about is how do we scale up compute to that pipeline of getting things from a first draft an agent did Is there no way merge. Isn't there what Graphite's for? Like, Graphite is a big part of that.
The cloud agent integrated or still different companies? Working on, I think we'll have more to share there in the future, but the goal is to have great end to end experience where Cursor doesn't just help you generate code tokens, it helps you create software end to end. And so review is a big part of that that I think, especially as models have gotten much better at writing code, generating code, we've felt that relatively crop up more.
Sorry.
one to you need AI to review AI. And then there is another approach, thought school of thought where it's like, no reviews are dead. Like, just show me the video.
Say it.
Yeah. I feel again, for me, the video is often like alignment, and then I often still wanna go through a code review process. Like, still look at the files and everything.
Spectrum, of course. Like, the video if it's really well done and it does, like, fully, like, test everything, you can feel pretty confident, but it's still helpful to to look at the code. I make pay a lot of attention to BugBot.
I feel like BugBot has been a great, really highly adopted internally. We often like won't we tell people like don't leave BugBot comments unaddressed because we have such high confidence in it. So people always address their Bug Bot comments.
Once you had two cases where you merged something and then you went back later. There was a bug in it. You merged it.
You went back later, and you were like, oh, Bug Bot had found that. I should have listened to Bug Bot. Once that happens two or three times, you learn to wait for Bug Bot.
Yeah. So I think for us, there's like that code level review where like it's looking at the actual code and then there's like the, like, feature level review where you're looking at the features. There's like a whole number of different like areas.
more different aspects of how this feature might affect your code base that you want to potentially leverage an agent to help with. And some of those, like, bug baud will be synchronous and you'll typically want to wait on before you merge. But I think another thing that we're starting to see is, as with Cloud Agents, you scale up this parallelism and how much code you generate, 10 person startups become need the DevEx and pipelines that a 10,000 person company used to need.
And that looks like a lot of the things, I think, that 10,000 person companies invented in order to get that volume of software to production safely. So that's things like release frequently, release slowly, have different stages where you release, have checkpoints, automated ways of detecting regressions. And so I think we're gonna need merge diffs, merge queues.
Exactly. A lot of those things are going to be important. For what it's worth, I think the majority of people still don't know what stack diffs are.
and, like, I I'm pretty friendly with Graphite. I've just I've never needed it because I don't work on this that larger team. And then it's just, like, democratization of, you know, like, here's why we've already worked at at a very large scale, and here's how you can it benefits you too.
Like, I think, to me, one of the beautiful things about GitHub is that it's actually useful to me as an individual solo developer, even though it's, like, actually collaboration software. Yep. And I don't think a lot of dev tools have figured that out yet, that transition from, like, large down to small.
Yeah. Cursor is probably an inverse story. This is small down to a large.
Where historically, Cursor part of why we grew so quickly was anyone on the team could pick it up. And in fact, people would pick it up on the weekend for their side project and then bring it into work because they loved using it so much. Yeah.
And I think a thing that we've started working on a lot more, not us specifically, but as a company and other folks at Cursor, is making it really great for teams and making it that the tenth person that starts using Cursor in a team is immediately set up with things like we launched Marketplace recently, so other people can configure what MCPs and skills, like plug ins. So skills and MCPs, Other people can configure that so that my cursor is ready to go and set up. Sam loves the Datadog MCP and Slack MCP.
You've also been using a lot. I see. I'll also pre launch, but I feel like it's so good.
Yeah. My cursor should be configured if Sam feels strongly. That's just amazing and required.
it depends on the MCP. So some are obviously off per user. Yeah.
And so Sam can't off my cursor with my Slack MCP, but some are team auth, and those can be set up by admins. Yeah. Yeah.
That's cool. Yeah. I think we had, Aman on the pod when the cursor was five people.
And, like, everyone was like, okay. What's the thing? And then it's usually something teams and org and enterprise.
But it's actually working. But, like, usually, at that stage, when you're five, when you're just a Versus Code fork, it's like, how do you get there? Yeah.
Will people pay for this? People do pay for it. Yeah.
agents, we expect to have similar kind of PLG things where I think off the bat, we've seen a lot of adoption with kind of smaller teams where the code bases are not quite as complex to set up. Yes. If you need some insane Docker layer caching thing for builds not to take two hours, that's going to take a little bit longer for us to be able to support that kind of infrastructure.
Whereas if you have front end, back end, like one click, agents can install everything that they need themselves.
This is a good chance for me to just ask some technical sort of check the box questions. Can I choose the size of the VM? Not yet.
We are planning on adding that. We have obviously you want like l, x x l, whatever. Right?
Like Yeah. It's like the Amazon, like, sort of menu item. Exactly.
We will add that. Yeah.
almost. Like you rent a box. You rent a box.
Yes. We talk a lot about brain in a box. Yeah.
So Cursor, we want to be a brain in a box. But is the mental model different? Is it more serverless?
Is it more persistent?
Is it something else? We want it to be a bit persistent. The desktop should be something you can return to even after some days.
Like, maybe you go back or, like, still thinking about a feature for some period of time. The full, like, sus like, suspend the memory and bring it back and then keep going.
That's an interesting one because what I actually do on, like, from Amanus and OpenCore or whatever, is, like, I want to be able to log in with my credentials to the thing, but not actually store it in any, like, secret store or whatever. Because it's like, this is the most sensitive Yeah. This is, like, my email, whatever.
And just have it, like, persist to the image. I don't know how it works under the hood, but, like, to rehydrate and then just keep going from there. But I don't think a lot of infra works that way.
A lot of it's stateless, where, like, you save it to a Docker image and then it's only whatever you can describe in a Docker file, and that's it. Because that's the only thing you can clone multiple times in parallel. Yeah.
We have a bunch of different ways of setting them up. So there's a Docker file based approach.
The main default way is actually snapshotting. Like a Linux VM. Like a VM.
Right? You run a bunch of install commands, and then you snapshot more or less the file system, and so that gets you set up for everything that you would want to bring a new VM up from that template, basically. Yeah.
where that is a full memory snapshot as well. So there, if I had, like, the browser open to a specific page and we bring that back, that page will still be there. Was there any discussion internally in just building this stuff about every time you shoot a video, it's actually show a little bit of the desktop and the browser.
And it's not necessary if you just show the browser. If you even know if you're just demoing a front end application.
Why not just show the browser? It's yeah. We do have some panning and zooming.
Like, it can decide that when it's actually recording and cutting the video to highlight different things. I think we played around with different ways of segmenting it and yeah. There's been some different rubs on it, for sure.
Yeah. I think one of the interesting things is the version that you see now in kusher.
actually is like half of what we had at peak, where we've decided to unship or unship quite a few things. So two of the interesting things to talk about. One is directly in answer to your question where we had native browser that you would have locally.
It was basically an iframe that via port forwarding could load the URL, could talk to local host in the VM. So that gets you So in your machine's browser. Like In your local browser Yeah.
You would go to local host 4,000, and that would get forwarded to local host 4,000 in the VM via port forwarding. We unshipped Like that an ngrok. Like an ngrok.
Exactly. We unshipped that because we felt that the remote desktop was sufficiently low latency and more general purpose. So we build Cursor web, but we also build Cursor desktop.
And so it's really useful to be able to have the full spectrum of things. And even for Cursor web, as you saw in one of the examples, the agent was uploading files. And, like, I couldn't upload files and open the file viewer if I only had access to the browser.
And we've thought a lot about this might seem funny coming from Cursor where we started as this Versus Code fork and I think inherited a lot of amazing things, but also a lot of legacy UI from Versus Code. And so with the web UI, we wanted to be very intentional about keeping that very minimal and exposing the right sum of set of primitive sort of app surfaces, we call them, that are shared features of that cloud environment that you and the agent both use. So agent uses desktop and controls it.
I can use desktop and control it. Agent runs terminal commands. I can run terminal commands.
So that's how our philosophy around it. The other thing that is maybe interesting to talk about that we unshipped is and we may both of these things, we may reship and decide at some point in the future that we've changed our minds on the trade offs or gotten it to a point where Put it out there. Let users tell you they want it.
Exactly. Alright. Fine.
So one of the other things is actually a files app. And so we used to have the ability at one point during the process of testing this internally to see next to I had git desktop and terminal on the right hand side of the tab there earlier to also have a files app where you could see and edit files. And we actually felt that in some ways by restricting and limiting what you could do there, people would naturally leave more to the agent and fall into this new pattern of delegating, which we thought was really valuable.
And there's currently no way in Cursor web to edit these files. Yeah. Except you, like, open up the PR and go to GitHub and do the thing Yeah.
Which is annoying. Just tell the agent.
OpenAI for this because OpenAI's Codex app doesn't have a file editor. Like, it has file viewer, but isn't it a file editor? Do you use the file viewer a lot?
No. I understand. But, like, sometimes I want it.
Yeah. The only way to do it is, like, freaking go in the no. They have a open in cursor button or open in anti gravity or opening whatever.
And people pointed that so I was I was part of the early testers group. People pointed that and they were like, this is like a design smell. It's like, you actually want a Versus Code fork that has all these things, but also a file editor.
they were like, no, just trust us. Yeah. I think we as Cursor will want to, as a product, offer the whole spectrum.
And so you want to be able to work at really high levels of abstraction and double click and see the lowest level. That's important. But I also think that, like, you won't be doing that in Slack.
And so there are surfaces and ways of interacting where, in some cases, limiting the UX capabilities makes for a cleaner experience that's more simple and drives people into these new patterns where even locally, we kicked off joking about this. People, like, don't really edit files, hand code anymore. And so we want to build for where that's going and not where it's been.
Lot of cool stuff. And okay.
about the design elements about these things. One of the things that I'm always thinking about is Cursor and other peers of Cursor start from, like, the dev tools and work their way towards Cloud Agents. Other people, like the lovables and bolts of the world, start with, here's, like, the VibeCode full cloud thing.
They were already Cloud Ages before anyone else Cloud Ages earlier. And it will give you the full deploy platform. So we own the whole loop.
We own all the infrastructure. We all we we have the logs. We have the the live site, whatever.
And you can do that cycle. Cursor doesn't own that cycle even today. You don't have the Vercel.
You don't have the whatever deploy infrastructure that you're that you're gonna have, which gives you powers because anyone can use it and any enterprise who whatever you're in for, I don't care. But then also gives you limitations as to how much you can actually fully debug end to end. I guess I'm just putting out there that, like, is there a future where there's, like, full stack cursor, where, like, cursorapps.
where, like, I host my cursor site, or this which is basically a Versal clone. Right? I don't know.
I think that's an interesting question to be asking, and I think, like, the logic that you laid out for how you would get there is logic that I largely agree with. I think right now, we're really focused on what we see as the next big bottleneck, and because things like the Datadog MCP exist, I don't think that the best way we can help our customers ship more software is by building a hosting solution right now. By the way, these are things I've actually discussed with some of the companies I just named.
Yeah. For sure. Right now, just this big bottleneck is getting the code out there.
And, also, unlike a Lovable and the Bolt, we focus much more on existing software. And the zero to one greenfield is just a very different problem. Imagine going to a Shopify and convincing them to deploy on your deployment solution.
That's very different, and I think will take much longer to see how that works may never happen relative to, oh, it's like a zero to one app.
SuvaBase, Tailwind, React. It's the stack. It's what everyone does.
So alright. It's kind of interesting. Yeah.
The other thing is the model selector die. Right now in Cloud Agents, it's stuck down bottom left. Sure.
It's Codex high today, but do I care if it's suddenly switched to Opus? Probably not. We definitely wanna give people a choice across models because I feel like it the meta changes very frequently.
I was a big, like, Opus 4.5 maximalist, and when Codex 5.3 came out, I hard hard switch.
So that's all I use now. Yeah. Agreed.
I don't know if any of basically, like, when I use it in Slack, right, Cursor does a very good job of exposing Yeah. Cursor's like, if people go use it, here's the model we're using. Yeah.
Here's how you switch if you want. But otherwise, it's like extracted away, which is like beautiful because then you actually, you should decide. Yeah.
Yeah. Where we can suggest things to people. A thing that we have in the editor, the desktop app is auto, which will route your request and do things there.
Because I think we will want to do something like that for Cloud Agents as well. We haven't done it yet. And so I think we have both people like Sam who are very savvy and want know exactly what model they want.
And we also have people that want us to pick the best model for them because we have amazing people like Sam, and we we are the experts. Yeah. We have both the traffic and the internal taste and experience to know what we think is best.
Yeah. I have this ongoing thesis of agent lab versus model lab. And to me, Cursor and other companies are example of an agent lab that is building a new playbook that is different from a model lab where it's, like, very GPU heavy.
Although, as you obviously has a research team. And the my thesis is, you just every agent lab is going to have a router. You because you are going to be asked, like, what's what I don't keep up to every day.
I'm not a Sam.
the arbiter of taste. Put me on Cursor Auto. Is it free?
Is it it's not free. Auto is not free, but there's different pricing tiers. Yeah.
Put me on Cursor Auto. You decide for me based on all the other people. You know better than me, and I think every agent that should basically end up doing this because that actually gives you extra power because you like, people stop caring or having loyalty with any one lab.
Yeah.
are, one, the best event thing we mentioned, where running different models head to head is actually quite interesting because Which exists in cursor That exists in cursor IDE and web. So the problem is where do you run them? Okay.
And so I I can share my screen Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah.
Obviously, parallel agents, very popular. Yes. Exactly.
Parallel agents In your mind, are they the same thing? Best event and parallel agents? I don't wanna put words in your mouth.
Best event is a subset of parallel agents where they're running on the same prompt.
That would be my answer. So this is what that looks like, and so here in this dropdown picker, I can just select multiple models. Yeah.
And now if I do a prompt, I'm going to do something silly.
these five mobs. Okay. This is a straight clone of Cursor two point o.
Yeah. Yes. Exactly.
so the Cursor two point o, you can do desktop or cloud. And so this is cloud specifically where the benefit over WorkTrees is that they have their own VMs and can run commands and won't try to kill ports that the other one is running, which are some of the pains These are all cloud WorkTrees?
No. These are all cloud agents with their own VMs. Okay.
But You do it locally. Sometimes people do work trees, and that's been the main way that people have set out parallel agents so far. So confusing for folks Yeah.
That no one knows what work trees are. Exactly. I think we're phasing out.
Work trees. Really? Yeah.
Okay. But yeah. And one other thing I would say though on the multi model choice.
So this is another experiment that we ran last year and didn't decide to ship at that time, but may come back to you. And there was an interesting learning that's relevant for these different model providers. It was something that would run a bunch of best of ends, but then synthesize and basically run like a synthesizer layer of models.
And that was other agents that would LM judge, but one that was also agentic and could write code. So it wasn't just picking, but also taking the learnings from two models or end models that it was looking at and writing a new diff. And what we found was that at the time, at least, there were strengths to using models from different model providers as the base level of this process.
Like, basically, you could get almost like a synergistic output that was better than having a very unified, like, bottom model tier. So it was really interesting because it's like potentially, even though even in the future when you have, like, maybe one model is ahead of the other for a little bit, there could be some benefit from having, like, multiple top tier models involved in, like, a model swarm or whatever agent swarm that you're doing. But they each have strengths and weaknesses.
Yeah. Andre called this the console. Right?
Yeah. Exactly. We actually oh, that's another internal command we have that Ian wrote slash counsel.
Oh, wait. So they sent yeah. Yeah.
This idea is in various forms everywhere. And I think for me, like, for me, the productization of it, you guys have done like, this is very flexible. But if I were to add another Yeah.
What your thing is on here, it would be too much. I I don't know what. Let's say.
Ideally, it's all it's something that the user can just choose and it all happens under the hood in a way where, like, you just get the benefit of that process at the end and better output, basically. But don't have to get too lost in the complexity of judging along the way. Okay.
on different parallel agents that's interesting is an idea that's been around for a while as well, that has started working recently, is sub agents.
different vintages to work together and collaborate and delegate. Yeah. I'm very like, I like, one of my I was looking for this is the year of the blah.
Right? Yeah. I think one of the things on the blah is sub agents.
I think these are search. But I haven't used them in cursor. Are they fully formed?
Or like, what how do I don't see, like, an intro because do I form them from new every time? Do I have fixed sub agents? How are they different for slash commands?
answer for people because everyone's just, like, too busy gonging. We have to reek. Honestly, you could you can see them in cursor now if you just say spin up, like, 50 sub agents to explore the what sub agents you know?
Yeah. So, basically, I think I shouldn't speak for the whole sub agents team. This is, a different team that's been working on this.
But what this is or thing that we saw internally is that, like, they're great for context management for kind of long running threads or if you're trying to throw more compute at something. We have strongly used almost like a generic task interface where then the main agent can define what goes into the sub agent.
it might decide to spin up an explorer sub agent and or might decide to spin up five explorer subagents. But I don't get to set what those subagents are. Right?
It's all defined by the model. I think I actually would have to refresh myself on the subagent interface. So yeah.
Know. There are some built in ones, like the explorer subagent is pre prebuilt, but you can also instruct the model to use other subagents, and then it will. And one other example of a built in subagent is I actually just kicked one off in cursor, and I can show you what that looks like.
Yes. Because I tried to do this in pure prompt space. This is the desktop app.
And That's all you need to do. Right? Yeah.
That's all you need to do. So I said, use a sub agent to explore. And I think yeah.
So I can even click in and see what the sub agent is working on here. It ran some fine command. And this is Composer under the hood.
Even though my main model is Opus, it does smart routing to take, like, in this instance, the Explorer sort of requires reading a ton of things, and so a faster model is really useful to get an answer quickly. But that this is what sub agents look like, and I think we want to do a lot more to expose hooks and ways for people to configure these. Another example of a cuss sort of built in sub agent is the computer use sub agent in the Cloud Agents, where we found that those trajectories can be long and involve a lot of images, obviously, and execution of some testing verification task.
We want to use models that are particularly good at that, So that's one reason to use sub agents, and then the other reason to use sub agents is we want context to be summarized, reduced down at a sub agent level.
that rollout and testing into a final message that agent writes that then gets passed into the parent rather than having to do some global compaction or something like that. Awesome. Cool.
While we're in the sub agents conversation, I can't do a cursor conversation and not talk about listen stuff. What is that? What is that?
He built a browser. He built an OS. Yes.
chart. This is all cool, but what's your take? What's is there any whole behind the the scene stories about that kind of that whole adventure?
Some of these experiments have found their way into a feature that's available in Cloud Agents now, the long running agent mode. Internally, call it grind mode. And I think there's, like, some hint of grind mode accessible in the picker today because you can do choose grind until done.
And so that was really the result of experiments that Wilson started in this vein where he I think the Ralph Wiggum loop was, like, floating around at the time, but it was something he also independently found and he was experimenting with. And that was what led to this product surface. And it's just simple idea of have criteria for completion and do not stop until you complete.
There's a bit more complexity as well in in our for implementation. Like, there's a specific you have to start out by aligning, and there's like a planning stage where it will work with you, and it will not get, like, start grind execution mode until it's decided that the plan is amenable to both of you, basically. It's like, I refuse to work until you make me happy.
We found that it's really important where people would give, like, very underspecified prompt and then expect it to come back with magic.
And if it's gonna go off and work for three minutes, that's one thing. When it's gonna go off and work for three days, probably should spend, like, a few hours upfront making sure that you have communicated what you actually want. Yeah.
And just to, like, really drive home the point, we really mean three days? No no hearing. Yeah.
We've had two days. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. So the thing that is available in Cursor, the long running agent, is if you want to think about it very abstractly, that is like one worker node, whereas what built the browser is a society of workers and planners and different agents collaborating. Because we started building the browser with one worker node.
At the time, that was just the agent, and it became one worker node when we realized that the throughput of the system was not where it needed to be to get something as large of a scale as the browser done. Yeah. And so this has also become a really big mental model for us with cloud cloud agents is there's the classic engineering latency throughput trade offs, and so, you know, the code is water flowing through a pipe.
The we think that over the coming months, the big unlock is not going to be one person with a model getting more done, like the water flowing faster, and we'll be making the pipe much wider. And so paralyzing more, whether that's swarms of agents or parallel agents, both of those are things that contribute to getting much more done in the same amount of time, but any one of those tasks doesn't necessarily need to get done that quickly. And throughput is this really big thing where if you see the system of a 100 concurrent agents outputting thousands of tokens a second, you can't go back.
Like, that just you see a glimpse of the future where, obviously, there are many caveats, like, one is using this browser IRL. There's, a bunch of things not quite right yet, but we are going to get to systems that produce real production code at the scale much sooner than people think. And it forces you to think, what even happens to production systems?
Like, we've broken our GitHub actions recently because we have so many agents, like, producing and pushing code that, like, CICD is just overloaded because suddenly it's, like, effectively regrew. Cursor's growing very quickly anyway, but you grow head count 10 x when people run 10 x as many agents. And so a lot of these systems exactly.
A lot of these systems will need to adapt.
It also reminds me like, you know, we we all the three of us live in the app layer. But if you talk to the researchers who are doing RL infrastructure, it's the same thing.
It's like all these parallel rollouts and scheduling them and making sure as much throughput as possible goes through them. Yeah. It's the same thing.
We were talking briefly before we started recording. You were mentioning memory chips and some of the shortages there. The other thing that I think is just, like, hard to wrap your head around, the scale of the system that was building the browser, the concurrency there.
If Sam and I both have a system like that running for us shipping our software, the amount of inference that we're going to need per developer is just really mind boggling. And that makes sometimes when I think about that, I think that even with the most optimistic projections for what we're going to need in terms of build out are underestimating the extent to which these swarm systems can, like Yeah.
to the economy. Yeah. You can cut this if it's sensitive, but I was just do you have estimates of how much your token consumption is?
Like, per developer?
Yeah. Or yourself. I don't know any, like, company average.
I just I feel like it's true. For a while, I wasn't an admin on the usage dashboard, and so I, like, wasn't able to actually see. But it was a Mine has gone up.
Oh, yeah. But I think it's In terms of how much work I'm doing, it's more. Like, I have no worries developers losing their jobs, at least in the near term, because I feel like that's a more broad discussion.
Yeah. Yeah. You you went there.
I didn't go I wasn't going there. I was just like, how how much more are you using? There's so much stuff to be built, and so I feel like I'm basically just trying to constantly I have more ambitions than I did before Yes.
Personally. Yes. So can't speak to the broader thing, but for me, it's like I'm busier than ever before.
and I'm also doing more things. Yeah. Yeah.
I don't have the stats for myself, but I think broadly a thing that we've seen that we expect to continue is Javan's Paradox Yep. Where You can't do it in your podcast without seeing it. Exactly.
We've done it now. We can rap. We've done we said the words phase one, tab auto complete, people pay like $20 a month, and that was great.
Phase two, where you're iterating with these local models today, people pay, like, hundreds of dollars a month. I think as we think about these highly parallel kind of agents running off for a long time in their own VM system, we are already at that point where people will be spending thousands of dollars a month per human, and I think potentially tens of thousands beyond, where it's not like we are greedy for, like, capturing more money, but what happens is just individuals get that much more leverage. And if one person can do as much as 10 people, yeah, that tool that allows them to do that is going to be tremendously valuable and worth investing in and taking the best thing that exists.
One more question on just the cursor in general and then open ended for you guys to plug whatever you wanna plug. How is cursor hiring these days? What do you mean by how?
So, obviously, lead code is dead. Oh, okay. Everyone says work trial.
Different people have different levels of adoption of agents. Some people can really adopt. He can be much more productive, but other people, they just need to give them a little bit of time.
And sometimes they've never lived in a token rich place like Cursor. And once you live in a token rich place, you're you just work differently. I mean, you need to have done that.
And a lot of people anyway, was just open ended. Like, how's agentic engineering, agentic coding changed your opinions on hiring? Is there any, like, broad, like, insights?
Yeah.
Basically, I'm asking this for other people. Right? Yeah.
Totally. Totally. To hear Sam's opinion, we haven't talked about this, the two of us.
I think that we don't see necessarily being great at the latest thing with AI coding as a prerequisite. I do think that's a sign that people are keeping up and curious and willing to upscale themselves in what's happening because as we were talking about the last three months, the game has completely changed. It's like what I do all day is very different.
Like, it's my job and I can't. Yeah. Totally.
I do think that still, as Sam was saying, the fundamentals remain important in the current age and being able to go and double click down. And models today do still have weaknesses where if you let them run for too long without cleaning up and refactoring, the code will get sloppy and there'll be bad abstractions. And so you still do need humans that, like, have built systems before, no good patterns when they see them and know where to steer things.
Yeah. I would agree with that.
Cursor also operates very quickly, and leveraging agentic engineering is probably one reason why that's possible in this current moment. I think in the past, it was just, like, people coding quickly, and now there's like people who use agents to move faster as well. So as part of our process, we'll always look for we'll select for kind of that ability to make good decisions quickly and move well in this environment.
And so I think being able to figure out how to use agents to help you do that is an important part of it too. Yeah. Okay.
The fork in the road, either predictions for the end of the year if you have any or plugs.
Predictions are not going to go well. I know. It's hard.
They're so hard. You did it wrong. It's okay.
Just One other plug that may be interesting that I feel like we touched on but haven't talked a ton about is a thing that the kind of these new interfaces and this parallelism enables is the ability to hop back and forth between threads really quickly. And so a thing that we have You wanna show something? Or Yeah.
I can show something. A thing that we have felt with local agents is this pain around context switching, and you have one agent that went off and did some work and another agent that that did something else. And so here, by having I just have three tabs open, let's say, but I can very quickly hop in here.
This is an example I showed earlier, but the actual workflow here, I think, is really different in a way that may not be obvious where I start the morning, I kick off 10 agents or something. The first one of them finishes, come in, watch the video. Either is close, and so I might send a follow-up.
I might say, hey, make it red, or I might hop into the desktop and try it out, and within ninety, a hundred twenty seconds, I've kicked this one back off and either started the merge process, like CI is running now, and I'll come back to it later, or it's off with some additional follow-up information, and then I can hop into the next one. And then the next one, I hop in and I'm like, okay, this looks interesting. Actually, try it out for real in the app.
I want to see it in action, not just in the gallery. So I can kick that off and the agent will go and work on that because maybe I wanted to try it out, like, what the button looks like in the actual thing. And then here I might hop in as well and check the video here or do something.
And so you're really parallelizing much more and follow-up here, check-in there. It's much more this higher level of abstraction and having the different desktops where you can hop back and forth, and you're not like, oh, I checked out this branch. Oh, where was that work tree again?
Yeah. It's really like solving for that, which we've ourselves have struggled with in Cursor and these local agents to be like, where was that diff again? It's lost in some work tree.
Never gonna find it. Oh, my local thing is rebuilding. Oh, just make another one.
That that's what you end up with. And then you wait for five more minutes for it to run. And so this is really like a new way of just paralyzing that we found to be really fun, honestly Yeah.
Where you're just hopping in and injecting taste. And you're like, that doesn't quite feel right. Oh, actually, is not architected quite right.
But you're just focusing on those, like, taste interesting questions. And for me, the cloud ecosystem too also enabled this to be, like, something that is, like, adding productivity to my dead time, like, commuting or, like, overnight or something like that. The fact that I don't have to leave my computer open.
There's no cursor there is a cursor mobile app. If there is, I'm not sure. It's, the current thing.
We I use it on my phone all the time, just on the web.
pretty good experience there for checking in Yeah. And unblocking, I think. Yeah.
You can see the videos and stuff in the web app, which is awesome. Yeah. Yeah.
one that the ADD will inherit the earth. Like, the if you're, like, your attention span is cooked, but you still can manage, like, actually, this is good for you. But also, I think this is where the coding tools start coming into conflict with the productivity tools, where, like, the linear, the Kanban boards.
Because what you have there is cool, but you know what? You actually need a Kanban board. Like, which people have Vibe Vibe Kanban is out there open source.
I'm sure you guys have talked about it. But we will start to conflict because actually the code doesn't matter anymore. It's the process of the human interacting and checking in and seeing like, getting the World of Warcraft sound package to go, like, work or whatever, like, done or I don't know.
It's like an interesting, like, future productivity thing. Yeah. I also think, like, another big theme, like, last year, it's called, like, the Year of Code Agents.
This year, another like, Code Agents spill over to the real world, to Cloud Cowork and all the other stuff. Yeah. I'm sure Kurosu is gonna focus on software, but let's call it, like, Open Claw is, like, extremely mind expanding in terms of, I did not know that could happen.
Yep. And it's all based on a coding agent based. Totally.
And I think one of the things that like talking to friends and family that are not in the software world that's interesting is I do, speaking of predictions, I do think that we are going to start to see other industries go through what software development has started going through. I think by virtue of how good models are at writing software and how early adopter the people building the new technology are and trying it out and applying it to themselves, that certain kinds of shifts will happen too to other industries. And there's a lot to be learned from how that's gone down and is continuing to go down in software in terms of all the interesting questions about to what point do people get more leverage?
When do you start changing the role to become much more generalist? Like all of these questions that we've seen some data on, but we'll see a lot more in the coming months, that will happen everywhere. Sam, any parting thoughts?
thoughts of your own? Not really.
It's fine. Good. We covered so much good draft.
We covered we covered a of Coming up with a prediction, I just think agents are gonna keep getting better, gonna stop doing as much manual coding, probably zero lines of code written in the whole month of December this year by myself.
A 100% agents is a personal prediction, but Oh, you're not at zero today. What in what cases?
I think, honestly, it's 1%. If I, like, just to, like, get frustrated and I'm like, I don't wanna go have it and tell an agent to change this one thing. But Prompting sometimes.
I feel like working on prompts sometimes. Yeah.
bare intent transfer that like telling the agent what I want. It's like writing an essay where I don't use agents to write essays yet because the process of writing it is the thinking. I still can't stand AI generated writing.
So yeah, I can also can't have the agent write prompts.
So no DSPY, no JEPA, nothing like that here. We have some internal tooling around some of the prompt optimization things, but there's a fair amount of just what concepts do I need to communicate to the agent, to the model. I also noticed another thing I'm also looking for is voice.
I noticed that you didn't use your voice to code. Even OpenAI, when we do a podcast with them, they don't use their voice. Yeah.
And I'm like, at some point, this gets good. You can stop typing. We have some people who like that a lot internally, and I think we'll be experimenting in that space too, for sure.
Do you use voice a lot? Not a lot. Sometimes.
That's bound to my caps lock, so I can press it. I just And when you use it, do you want it to talk back? Or you just want Yeah.
Just dump in? Yeah.
But, like, the brain dump is good. Yeah. Because you can interrupt yourself, you can go on a tangent, whatever.
It just captures everything Yeah. And slop it into all of them. It's fine.
Yeah. The way that we did this with AutoTab was people would record full screen recordings with audio to teach the model, like, how to do a task.
because they were used to they last used AI two years ago where you had to Apple has damaged, like, an entire generation of people's expectations there. Exactly. And we had to be like, no, you're very native, you do this, but just dump everything in.
You can say you can repeat yourself. You can contradict yourself. The models are smart enough to figure it out.
That is still very bad. So voice coding was always, I consider it, like, the hardest part because you have to say, like, technical things that is spelled like, spelling matters. The capitalization matters and, like, it's all not in voice.
So we'll see.
that kind of stuff. But at some point, it's gonna hit voice coding. Yeah.
I have a prediction for you. Yeah. I predict that by the end of the year, the volume on I think it will take longer than people think and longer than we think for cloud and agents working in their own boxes to surpass local agents.
But I think that crossover will happen before the end of the year, and probably by the end of the year, agents running in the cloud will be a multi like, more than two x the volume of local agents.
Okay. You're leaving me an opening. What's not good today?
Yeah. There's a bunch of hard things. So one of them is just getting those sandboxes to be really good.
And the thing that was part of this launch that we spent an inordinate amount of time on is cursor.com/onboard, where you pick a repo, add secrets, give it access to things, and the agent just goes off and installs things. Yes.
I think all the whole thing, that was my favorite. Yeah. We worked a lot on that.
Sam and I in particular, spent a lot of late nights just making that good. But there's still a lot to do there. Right?
Set up one two two things maybe. It's too slow. It's too slow working on it.
Setup is not like a unitary thing where everything is set up or not. Right? Like things will break over time.
You have new dependencies. You need access to new systems. Like you change where your database lives.
So that's one part of it. And then the other part of it is having these agents run-in the cloud and be more autonomous. We've really started to see the lack of memory.
And Sam, as someone who's thought a lot about this, once you start getting the model kind of doing operating the code base, there's more particularities that are not it's not just a read file tool. It needs to know how do I start up the back end? How do I check the status of the back end?
That's very particular to your code base. And even if it's great at NPM, run watch, or whatever the default things are, there's always quirks. Everyone has quirks, And getting the model good at those things will require more work, and we're working on that.
in any one code base. It's about Cursor rules. It's gonna be something else.
Is it gonna be a file? Is it we just call it another markdown file, different name and I don't know. One thing that we learned at Kui being Cursor the company this year, there there's a really great blog post that the to Diane and other people in the agent quality team put out about dynamic file context.
Is it your team or is it a different team? Different team. Yeah.
And they were working basically doing a lot Everything is file system. And so a lot of my thinking personally on memory this past year has changed to be more aligned with that, where it's like giving the agent pointers to things, annotations to things. The second thing I think that I've started to think differently about, memory is a subset of agent self auditability and self awareness.
So basically, like, the agent might wanna propose annotations or links or memory, like, files to itself when it finds that there's, like, some gap in its functionality, in its own harness that might need to be filled by, like, some piece of information on a sunny permanent basis. But there's a whole bunch of other things that are a side effect of self auditability that are really interesting, like potentially finding, like, conflicting instructions or, like, skills and rules that, like, might be, like, these are bugging each other. And also things like fixing like DevEx problems that it runs into.
I think that basically the dynamic file system stuff is probably very promising for memory.
and decide how to fill them. That's such a good point. Like, self awareness broadly has been a really big thing that I think Sam has pushed us to do more and more of where the agent should understand how its environment works.
It should understand how secrets work. Like, it needs to be self aware about its own harness and its environment. And anything that's not inherent in the model, you have to do Specifics.
Right? If it's running in cursor versus some other sandbox, that's a bit different.
when the model starts editing its own system prompt. Yeah. What does that even mean?
How do you do that safely and in a way do that? This is just research. Right?
This isn't this is I think it will do that. Yeah. It will manage its own context.
Yeah. And so system prompt is part of the context and you can argue about Yeah. Like other things that it might decide to turn off or on depending.
And all this self awareness to us in this context is not like the model itself having a notion of consciousness, but more like knowing like what system it's operating in and the constraints of that system and potentially being able to have agency in optimizing itself to operate best in the in that system. This was like one of the first things I learned at Dot when we launched was that I we had made the model or made the agent or whatever we would call it at that time. It was far less agentic.
Like, made the product work very well at a certain number of things, but didn't have complete self awareness of, like, its own boundaries. So people would be like, hey. Can you do this thing?
And the thing was there and could be done. And the the product would be like, oh, no. And I'd be like, but you can.
And so, like, basically, like, that was one of the earliest things I found. Just believe in yourself. I know.
As a product developer, like, it needs to both be able to do the thing, and it needs to have complete knowledge of its ability to do the thing. Those are not always obviously the same, like, part of the prompt at all. Yeah.
It's something that I think has continued to be a theme in the ecosystem that users will often attribute increased intelligence to a system that is more highly self aware and is more able to, like, manipulate itself to do well in a system, if that makes sense. Yeah.
This is more abstract than I ever thought we'll get at this cursor discussion. Mean Koop that this is the kind of conversation that you have in, like And we talk about this stuff all the time. Into improving Yeah.
Agents in in general. Yeah. I think to your point, right, about the agent layer and thinking a lot about models and the harness and the product and the affordances, like, that falls from the No.
I mean, you guys are, like, my sort of needing example what an agent lab looks like and can be successful, and I think people always hungry for insights into how you guys operate. So thank you for taking the time to share. Thanks for coming.
Yeah. Thank you.
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